#46510: "First impression suggestions"
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| # | Status | Votes | Game | Type | Title | Last update |
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Descrición detallada
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• Por favor, copia e pega a mensaxe de erro que ves na túa pantalla, se houbera algún.
Tile set option should be individual setting, not table setting. Plus, abstract set is the worst mahjong tiles I've ever seen. Why is this the default?
Tile discard requires manual confirmation even for turn player. This should be automated except when riichi is possible.
Current system doesn't seem to work well in turn-based. The game will be a nightmare with manual confirmation (I posted exactly the same thing for other mahjong implementation).
Hard to read player name and seat wind. Please arrange it better, and adding current score next or below the name would help.
Adding tables for scoring and yaku descriptions would also be helpful. -
• Por favor, explica o que querías facer, o que fixeche e o que pasou
• Cal é o teu navegador?
Google Chrome v92
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• Por favor, copia/pega o texto amosado en inglés no canto do teu idioma. Se tes un pantallazo deste erro (boa práctica), podes usar Imgur.com para subilo e copiar/pegar a ligazón aquí.
Tile set option should be individual setting, not table setting. Plus, abstract set is the worst mahjong tiles I've ever seen. Why is this the default?
Tile discard requires manual confirmation even for turn player. This should be automated except when riichi is possible.
Current system doesn't seem to work well in turn-based. The game will be a nightmare with manual confirmation (I posted exactly the same thing for other mahjong implementation).
Hard to read player name and seat wind. Please arrange it better, and adding current score next or below the name would help.
Adding tables for scoring and yaku descriptions would also be helpful. -
• É este o texto dispoñible no sistema de tradución? Se é así, foi traducido fai máis de 24 horas?
• Cal é o teu navegador?
Google Chrome v92
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• Por favor explica a túa suxestión de maneira precisa e concisa para que sexa o máis sinxelo posible entender o que queres dicir.
Tile set option should be individual setting, not table setting. Plus, abstract set is the worst mahjong tiles I've ever seen. Why is this the default?
Tile discard requires manual confirmation even for turn player. This should be automated except when riichi is possible.
Current system doesn't seem to work well in turn-based. The game will be a nightmare with manual confirmation (I posted exactly the same thing for other mahjong implementation).
Hard to read player name and seat wind. Please arrange it better, and adding current score next or below the name would help.
Adding tables for scoring and yaku descriptions would also be helpful. • Cal é o teu navegador?
Google Chrome v92
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• Qué había na pantalla cando se quedou bloqueado? (mensaxe de erro?, pantalla en blanco?, unha parte da interface do xogo?)
Tile set option should be individual setting, not table setting. Plus, abstract set is the worst mahjong tiles I've ever seen. Why is this the default?
Tile discard requires manual confirmation even for turn player. This should be automated except when riichi is possible.
Current system doesn't seem to work well in turn-based. The game will be a nightmare with manual confirmation (I posted exactly the same thing for other mahjong implementation).
Hard to read player name and seat wind. Please arrange it better, and adding current score next or below the name would help.
Adding tables for scoring and yaku descriptions would also be helpful. • Cal é o teu navegador?
Google Chrome v92
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• Qué parte das regras non se cumpriron na adaptación da BGA?
Tile set option should be individual setting, not table setting. Plus, abstract set is the worst mahjong tiles I've ever seen. Why is this the default?
Tile discard requires manual confirmation even for turn player. This should be automated except when riichi is possible.
Current system doesn't seem to work well in turn-based. The game will be a nightmare with manual confirmation (I posted exactly the same thing for other mahjong implementation).
Hard to read player name and seat wind. Please arrange it better, and adding current score next or below the name would help.
Adding tables for scoring and yaku descriptions would also be helpful. -
• é visible a violación das regras na repetición? Se o é, en que número de movemento?
• Cal é o teu navegador?
Google Chrome v92
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• Qué acción de xogo querías realizar?
Tile set option should be individual setting, not table setting. Plus, abstract set is the worst mahjong tiles I've ever seen. Why is this the default?
Tile discard requires manual confirmation even for turn player. This should be automated except when riichi is possible.
Current system doesn't seem to work well in turn-based. The game will be a nightmare with manual confirmation (I posted exactly the same thing for other mahjong implementation).
Hard to read player name and seat wind. Please arrange it better, and adding current score next or below the name would help.
Adding tables for scoring and yaku descriptions would also be helpful. -
• Qué é o que tratache de facer para activar esta acción do xogo?
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• Qué sucedeu cando o fixeche (a mensaxe de erro, mensaxe na barra de estado do xogo, ...)?
• Cal é o teu navegador?
Google Chrome v92
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• En que paso do xogo ocorreu o problema (cal foi a instrucción actual do xogo)?
Tile set option should be individual setting, not table setting. Plus, abstract set is the worst mahjong tiles I've ever seen. Why is this the default?
Tile discard requires manual confirmation even for turn player. This should be automated except when riichi is possible.
Current system doesn't seem to work well in turn-based. The game will be a nightmare with manual confirmation (I posted exactly the same thing for other mahjong implementation).
Hard to read player name and seat wind. Please arrange it better, and adding current score next or below the name would help.
Adding tables for scoring and yaku descriptions would also be helpful. -
• Qué sucedeu cando tratache de facer unha acción de xogo (mensaxe de erro, mensaxe na barra de estado do xogo, ...)?
• Cal é o teu navegador?
Google Chrome v92
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• Por favor, describe o problema de visualización. Se tes un pantallazo deste erro (boa práctica), podes usar Imgur.com para subilo e copiar/pegar a ligazón aquí.
Tile set option should be individual setting, not table setting. Plus, abstract set is the worst mahjong tiles I've ever seen. Why is this the default?
Tile discard requires manual confirmation even for turn player. This should be automated except when riichi is possible.
Current system doesn't seem to work well in turn-based. The game will be a nightmare with manual confirmation (I posted exactly the same thing for other mahjong implementation).
Hard to read player name and seat wind. Please arrange it better, and adding current score next or below the name would help.
Adding tables for scoring and yaku descriptions would also be helpful. • Cal é o teu navegador?
Google Chrome v92
-
• Por favor, copia/pega o texto amosado en inglés no canto do teu idioma. Se tes un pantallazo deste erro (boa práctica), podes usar Imgur.com para subilo e copiar/pegar a ligazón aquí.
Tile set option should be individual setting, not table setting. Plus, abstract set is the worst mahjong tiles I've ever seen. Why is this the default?
Tile discard requires manual confirmation even for turn player. This should be automated except when riichi is possible.
Current system doesn't seem to work well in turn-based. The game will be a nightmare with manual confirmation (I posted exactly the same thing for other mahjong implementation).
Hard to read player name and seat wind. Please arrange it better, and adding current score next or below the name would help.
Adding tables for scoring and yaku descriptions would also be helpful. -
• É este o texto dispoñible no sistema de tradución? Se é así, foi traducido fai máis de 24 horas?
• Cal é o teu navegador?
Google Chrome v92
-
• Por favor explica a túa suxestión de maneira precisa e concisa para que sexa o máis sinxelo posible entender o que queres dicir.
Tile set option should be individual setting, not table setting. Plus, abstract set is the worst mahjong tiles I've ever seen. Why is this the default?
Tile discard requires manual confirmation even for turn player. This should be automated except when riichi is possible.
Current system doesn't seem to work well in turn-based. The game will be a nightmare with manual confirmation (I posted exactly the same thing for other mahjong implementation).
Hard to read player name and seat wind. Please arrange it better, and adding current score next or below the name would help.
Adding tables for scoring and yaku descriptions would also be helpful. • Cal é o teu navegador?
Google Chrome v92
Historial de informes
2) Autopassing instantly is giving information away. This is a problem with Mahjong in relation to the BGA framework because the timer stops when the player becomes inactive. At a real table, you do not have the information that player X cannot make a call, here you would. The timeout options are for this purpose.
3) Well, a game can easily have 1000-2000 moves. Turn-based is definitely not recommended Not sure how to solve this elegantly. Autopass again gives away information.
4) I don't agree on that one.
5) In the meta-information, on How to Play or Strategy Tips I agree. I couldn't add those yet.
6) What other rule variants do you have in mind?
ps:
Some diplomacy if I may ask well, I created the worst mahjong tiles you have ever seen myself ;-) The point was of course to have a playable, beginner-readable set, irrespective of how aesthetically pleasing they are ...
3) Perhaps allowing to choose what tiles to call preemptively? Or create a table option to enable autopass.
6) Abortive draws, counted yakuman, nagashi mangan, head bump, etc.
There are plenty of other variants (disallowing concealed kong robs even with 13 orphans, local yakus, and continues) but not really interested in those stuff.
ps: Sorry for badmouthing. I understand why that set is added, but it needs some refinement.
Technically, I don't think it makes a difference, and in my understanding there is nothing substantially incorrect. The Riichi is indicated by turning the tile sideways, but the audible call is made before. However, because Riichi can be intercepted by Ron (and voided in the process), the full resolution of whether there is a valid Riichi call is never clear until after the discard is made and visible to all players. The EMA rules do not specify the call to be made before the discard in 3.3.14 but clearly recommend doing so in 5.3. I have also read instructions that recommend waiting with calling/turning the tile for possible Ron.
In my current implementation, the Riichi call is always visible to the others, even it is voided. This is the normal situation in real life as well and consistent with 5.3. The only difference to real life is that some quick-minded players might make a conditional decision whether to call Pon/Chi/Kan depending on the Riichi call. This is a general problem with call synchrony and reversal in real life.
3) See other issue (46572)
6) Sure, agreed, there are hundreds of variants. Double Yakuman are great but extremely rare (roughly 1/100000 wins on Tenhou). Nagashi Mangan is very rare, especially in 4-player Mahjong. The only one I had in mind from the beginning were abortive draws, so I'll look into that. The 2-Yaku minimum, possibly in bonus-dependent fashion might be an option to consider as well to mix up styles of play a bit more.
Riichi itself may affect calling decision (eg. calling to eliminate ippatsu, skipping 1000pt ron to change hand for more score if nobody declares riichi).
Current implementation does not declare riichi before discard.
6) Counted yakuman is counting 13+ fans as a single yakuman, not sanbaiman. 26+ fans do not count as a double yakuman, just in case.
btw, are you implying double yakuman is not implemented yet?
Personally I think counting a single combination (big four winds, 13-wait 13 orphans, 9-wait 9 gates, single-wait 4 concealed triplets) as a double yakuman is too much, but awarding multiple yakuman for multiple combinations (eg. big three dragons + all honours) makes sense.
Nagashi mangan is indeed rare, but as three color triples and stealing a kong.
2-yaku mimimum is an obsolete rule, really. No popular implementation employs that.
irl mahjong goes the same. In digital games, the system prevents riichi when there is no valid discard.
btw, I found out in EMA rules do not allow agariyame. Surely EMA is quite different from popular Japanese rules.
I am updating this discussion here:
As a compromise I have an in-between notification in the updated version. I want to emphasize again that logically the discard and calling Riichi are a joint action. In nearly all cases, the Riichi takes it legitimacy from the discard. As is written by ufm above, what many online clients do is to analyze your hand for you before a discard, then offer you Riichi, then filter the discardable tiles so you do not commit a penalty (Chombo). At a real table, in contrast, it is completely up to you to recognize Riichi and to make sure to discard tiles that create or maintain a Tenpai hand. This requires much more recognition skills from the player. As a result, I do not like this automation of hand recognition. If we accept this position, I identified 3 options in addition to my original implementation:
a) Mimic real-life: you can easily commit a Chombo by an invalid declaration. This would also be a nice way to play online but not beginner-friendly at all. Most players would most likely reject it even though it is closest to the real game. Major restructuring would be required.
b) Insert a second step in which only the discarding player is asked: discard -> optional Riichi call and announcement of call to other players -> discard becomes visible and claimable by others. I agree that this would be the best but it requires some more involved restructuring for very little gain.
c) Pull in the second step. discard -> optional Riichi call and discard becomes visible -> as soon as Riichi button is pressed, the other players are notified immediately -> other players can make simultaneous calls. This will work well in turn-based mode because the discarding player will get the option right away, so will usually call first. I hope this is a reasonable compromise.
Let me emphasize again that the order discard/Riichi Riichi/discard is not relevant per se if you know that you want to discard a specific tile to create a Tenpai hand and call Riichi. The only minor relevance in timing comes from the other players: specifically, from the rare cases where other players make a conditional decision on claiming that tile for a meld that depends on whether Riichi is called or not.
@ufm EMA rules
EMA vs Japanese rules: they are not that different (see your own link). I think competition rules have been converging for quite some time. In my opinion, Tenhou is actually more of an outlier than EMA.
@ufm point 6:
On double/stacked/counted Yakuman hands: as I said, these are extremely rare, they are not part of EMA rules, and not implemented. The reference of 1/100000 was to any multi-Yakuman hand.
For rules, yes they are different. You are completely ignoring rules used in jansous(mahjong parlors).
WRC, EMA, and various so-called 'official' organizations employ competitive rules which are designed for leagues they operate. They tend to reduce the weight of luck. For example, they do not use red 5, they count points based on their actual game score (including uma and oka), do not allow double ron, and some of them even removes uradora or kandora.
However almost all online implemetations such as tenhou, majsoul, MJ, and others do not because most of players don't play leagues or championships at all and they are more familiar with parlor rules. Players' ranks are calculated as rank points based on the game result only, not referring the scores.
Thus, I suggest creating some additional variant options (like Hand & Foot implementation) or two or three rule sets as a package (for example, 'EMA rules' / 'Parlor rules').
For multi-Yakuman hands I am not sure I follow your point, ufm. The probabilities are known and they are in fact extremely small. In any case, these extreme scores are not part of EMA rules, and they make more sense in tournament settings than in single games ...
If there's anything else, you can always reopen a new suggestion.
Engade a este informe
- Outro DI de mesa / ID de movemento
- Premer F5 resolveu o problema?
- Apareceu o problema varias veces? Tódalas veces? Aleatoriamente?
- Se tes un pantallazo deste erro (boa práctica), podes usar Imgur.com para subilo e copiar/pegar a ligazón aquí.
